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Author Topic: HDPE toboggan build thread  (Read 618 times)

Offline jscudds

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HDPE toboggan build thread
« on: November 08, 2017, 06:46:56 pm »
I have some 120 x 48 x 1/4  HDPE on order and have the maple lumber cut into  3/4"  x 1 1/2" slats, to start to build a couple of sleds build,  I figured i'd start a thread as i have a few questions, and i'm bound to have a few more even after reading all the sled build posts,  which were really really good, thank you.


So in reading all the toboggan build posts,  i didn't really get a feeling for how far back the second slat (pulling slat) should be from the front of the sled.  Can anyone clarify?

P.S.  I'll have one extra 120 x 16 x 1/4 HDPE sheet  left over if anyone is interested,... im just east of Toronto.

Thanks in advance

Josh
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 07:06:42 am by jscudds »

Offline TZBrown

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 09:06:30 pm »
I don't think there is any magic number. 

For me it depends on how tight I want the curl at the front.  I place the second cross just behind the rear edge of the front curl.
I can tuck a tank or a box in and not have the curl hit the top edge of the box.

Usually the rear of the curl is behind the vertical by only a couple of inches

Though I have modified the lines on this build it shows pretty much how I did it
https://www.flickr.com/photos/56844387@N04/albums/72157661059610806

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Offline jscudds

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 05:59:50 am »
great info thanks,...I think i was unclear by referencing the  second slat,.... i meant the pulling slat. 

But,  I like how you put the very very front slat on the outside (bottom side) I was thinking of doing this, but prior to oiling the wood, I would burn and etching my last name in the maple.

Any tips on how far down the curve to put the pulling slat?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 07:11:00 am by jscudds »

Offline HOOP

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 07:13:27 am »
Nice looking toboggan build TZBrown!   Some neat ideas there I may borrow one day!

I linked your photo from the second link for the question below:


From jscudds:
Quote
great info thanks,...I think i was unclear by referencing the  second slat,.... i meant the pulling slat.

But,  I like how you put the very very front slat on the outside (bottom side) I was thinking of doing this but prior to oiling the wood burning and etching my last name in the maple.

Any tips on how far down the curve to put the pulling slat?

Hi Jscudds, that is a good question.  For the pull bar, I have always used the first bar on the flat of the toboggan behind the front curl on all of my toboggans, with the theory that I wanted the force at the lowest level in order to pull the front up just a bit to reduce friction initially.  But I notice most people raise the level of pull like TZB shows in his photo above, and I am now beginning to question my theory on the pull angle.  I am now leaning to the design something closer to what TZB shows.  The angle of pull is still up slightly, but its flatter than what I have been using, and perhaps that flatter pull angle is more efficient.

I need to make some mods on my toboggan.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 07:19:19 am by HOOP »
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Online Moondog55

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 03:36:18 pm »
I've never used a sled only my various pulks
Would it would be practical to put more than one pulling position on a sled and ring the changes for varying terrain?

Offline Undersky

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 06:05:25 pm »
Personal experience has told me, in no uncertain terms, that pull point position is important.

Pulling points that are too high on the curl of a heavy toboggan have resulted in the front being pushed down into the snow unnecessarily. This increased drag, "snowplowing", and damage if/when the sled curl hit a rock. The extra downward push on the toboggan also prevented easy sliding up and over logs lying crosswise on the trail. Too-high pull points also have increased the tendency of a loaded sled to twist and potentially roll over toward the inside of a turn when negotiating tight corners.

Low pulling points, so long as they are still about 4 cm above the intersection of hard-packed trail and plastic, have had very few down-sides. (Maybe the pull points drawn into the Snowtrekker logo are just a smidgen high?)

It would be interesting to hear of others' experiences.

Online Moondog55

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 10:18:24 pm »
Better change the Logo then??
Maybe  I should reverse the position of the pull points on my Paris sled then and mount the pull pivot underneath rather than where it is normal to do so, only needs 4 bolts undone and then replaced although it will cost 4 new Nylok nuts they are only a dollar each

Offline Undersky

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 11:48:18 pm »
No messing with the logo! I really like the look of that logo :)

I should have clarified that I was referring to toboggans with a significant front end upward curl.

Pulling from nearer the top of that curl can push the front of the toboggan downward in some cases, especially with a heavy load and high friction snow. Pulling from low down on the front of the curl results in a little lifting action, which has been good, in my experience.

I've only used a Paris sled once, and seen them on display a half dozen times, but all of them had pull points that were quite low to start with. Not sure that changing those pull points would make any difference. They seem well positioned as they are.

Offline sd

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 03:43:23 pm »
Hi,

PM sent regarding the piece of extra plastic that you have.

Thanks,
Sheamus

Online Moondog55

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 03:49:42 pm »
No messing with the logo! I really like the look of that logo :)

I have a sticker on my car too

Offline chimpac

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 05:12:12 pm »
I have been looking at utube,  reindeer herders in Siberia and Scandinavian countries.
I never see a toboggan used only runners on sleds. They use them for travel when there is no snow as well. They travel over wet marshy ground where the deck of the sled is high enough to stay out of the water.
So I am wondering why a toboggan is preferred by Canadian Wintertrekkers.

Offline Undersky

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 06:58:38 pm »
Hi Chimpac,

Aren't those Sami sleds pretty cool! I really like the rearward lean to the up-rights, and their overall simplicity

The most basic reason a trekker might choose one over the other is flotation; the toboggan having more flotation than a runner-ed sled.

Some other reasons for choosing a toboggan might be the easier portability of a plastic toboggan if it is rolled up, the generally lower center of gravity of a packed toboggan compared to the same load on the same length/width of runner-ed sled, and the added toughness vs weight of a plastic toboggan.
 
But some trekkers might say that toboggans are not necessarily preferred over runner-ed sleds here in Canada. They may instead say that it depends upon snow conditions / trail conditions. It is generally agreed that on a packed float a runner-ed sled can carry more load for the same pulling effort than can a toboggan.

Indigenous people living in the boreal regions used toboggans when travelling on unpacked trails, and runner-ed sleds (called "moose sleds" in some areas) when on packed trails. The variable need for flotation was the deciding factor, I believe. Indigenous people in the arctic used low, long runner-ed sleds (komatik) the majority of the time, and often had to stay put if their area had a deep soft dump of snow. They would be mobile again after a good blow drifted and hardened the snow.

Just some thoughts.

Offline jscudds

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Re: HDPE toboggan build thread
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 07:11:23 am »
I got a lot of work done yesterday in the garage,....i cut the slats to length, planed the edges rounded,... clamped and drilled out the bottom groove in the slats.  and started sanding.  I wanted to get most of the prep work done as my HDPE sheet is scheduled to be picked and ripped into almost 16" strips and ready for pickup.










« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:47:49 am by jscudds »