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Winter Camping Discussion => Winter Camping Clothing => : Moondog55 September 10, 2016, 09:59:49 PM

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: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 September 10, 2016, 09:59:49 PM
I've been following another forum where people are waxing lyrical about the US Army lightly insulated poncho liner/ warm weather blanket commonly called a "Woobie"
I have access to some of these very cheaply but I also scored some mid-loft Thinsulate very cheaply at a fabric sale
Also some good LW windproof fabric and dirt cheap $2- a metre Goretex
Would there be any use for a moderately insulated hooded cloak as part of a deep winter outfit?
In conversation on another forum I asked if anybody had ever cut a hole in a poncho liner and/or added a hood but so far nobody has
I believe Fjallraven has something along this line but much shorter than the garment I am contemplating
Would something like the HPG Mountain Serape be a worthwhile addition to a winter kit?

https://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/tabid/762/CategoryID/4/ProductID/19/Default.aspx
Making something like this will take about an hour at most unless it is shaped and in that case would take about a half days work
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 September 11, 2016, 11:56:25 PM
Also this

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/us-military-issue-reversible-primaloft-hooded-poncho-liner-new?a=2050120

Although the garment is cheap enough SG want $USD60- to post to OZ so that's not going to happen
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Pyreneo September 13, 2016, 09:19:41 AM
Hello,

In deep snow I think a long coat is a problem, for this reason lappish/fjallraven cape is short. If you are in alpin moutain, a cape is not very good (wind and it is cumbersone). In a flat and cold country (lappland) : why not.

The advantage of poncho liner with hole is that you could use it as a part of your sleeping equipement and you could use it during day. If it is not too heavy you could use it like a blancket upon you down sleeping bag.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: AJM October 02, 2016, 08:39:46 AM
I've been thinking of this but more along the lines of getting something made out of wool for sitting around the fire cold camping. I have a big puffy down parka that is a sythetic shell so it wouldn't do well around a fire.

However you can get wool ponchos fairly cheap and I was thinking I could thrown one on to protect the coat during fire times and then at night in the tent it could double as a dog bed.

They seem to be available fairly cheaply over the net and made from alpaca wool mostly.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 October 02, 2016, 11:01:49 PM
Being an old hippy I have used the old woollen blanket a lot, both hooded and Mexican serape style.
The downside [ pardon that awful pun] to the woollen is the that at any reasonable warmth level they are simply not windproof and if boiled and felted are simply too heavy in this LW world so I'd not previously contemplated them for extreme cold weather camping when man-hauling.
Putting an UL cotton shell on a decently warm woollen blanket tho may work but if you used modern UL fabrics the poncho becomes part of the sleeping system used as an overquilt, the Kifaru Doobie/Double Doobie idea
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: AJM October 04, 2016, 09:23:06 AM

The downside [ pardon that awful pun] to the woollen is the that at any reasonable warmth level they are simply not windproof

For what I was thinking I would be less concerned about windproof since I would be wearing a big puffy mountaineering parka underneath it. I would just want something to protect the parka from sparks without breaking the bank. And then multipurpose it - part of a doggy sleeping system.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 October 09, 2016, 05:49:35 PM
A lightweight cotton shell then rather than the UL Argon nylon fabrics.
Those US army hooded ponchos are so heavy for the warmth they provide due to using an outdated technology and the cheapest possible cost
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 January 06, 2017, 05:46:12 PM
German army snow camouflage poncho sewn to a LW woollen blanket would work, maybe dyed a bright colour tho

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PONCHO-SNOW-CAMO-SPRUCE-PATTERN-NEW-SURPLUS-MILITARY-GERMAN-CAMOUFLAGE-ONE-SIZE-/282311300277?hash=item41bb1094b5:g:l0EAAOSw2xRYYcCX
Made from the cheapest possible fabric as I think they were considered a combat disposable, but easily give a DWR or even silicon diluted in spirits.
Not windproof but very breathable when clean, Nikwax cotton proof  would work I think
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: awbrown: N. Illinois, USA January 06, 2017, 09:04:55 PM
Had not thought of this for years. When I was in the Army I was stationed in Germany. We spent a lot of time outside, summer and winter, guarding a missile site. In the winter, we always used our ponchos as our outer winter garment. The nature of the job was that you weren't particularly active, so you weren't going to work up a sweat. They were wind proof, water proof, very roomy on the inside. We used them as miniature tents. They worked out well for our purposes.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: mewolf1 January 06, 2017, 10:29:10 PM
Been making these from blankets. Snow camo/anorak used as pattern. Quite versatile as a layered system.

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15871977_1572151812800240_4635520665212174454_n.jpg?oh=fd4eeda1edfa079991ba528d33251d77&oe=5923AFE8)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15826865_1572147712800650_4932664657178215298_n.jpg?oh=b372a6624d42d6cfceeb460facf66d3c&oe=5915C657)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15941083_1572147662800655_7242993389322990396_n.jpg?oh=5847eab7e0895307fb502bcda4070a33&oe=58EBB5D9)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15940979_1572147339467354_1639435005178762128_n.jpg?oh=d33e0253a6e3410f67ccff8fda6bea0a&oe=591BE4D2)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15825935_1572147179467370_6291560808221330564_n.jpg?oh=d68b10684890d04d1358cc2650458108&oe=58E688CD)
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15941025_1572147176134037_3027084775679697997_n.jpg?oh=cee7b6ef5e6494b9230c6c0eb8cdb825&oe=59219985)
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: southcove January 06, 2017, 11:06:32 PM
Good looking, effective sewing work there!  I especially appreciate the drop tail(s) and adjustments that you put on the wool and canvas anoraks... some of this home design DIY made stuff is really neat and well thought out...
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: mewolf1 January 06, 2017, 11:49:34 PM
Thanks, I wish I could take credit for the cotton anorak, but it's military surplus, and the price is right at 30 bucks. I added the trimmings. The ties at the bottom are to tie around each leg. I kinda like the option. The blanket liners are all me. :)

Good looking, effective sewing work there!  I especially appreciate the drop tail(s) and adjustments that you put on the wool and canvas anoraks... some of this home design DIY made stuff is really neat and well thought out...
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 January 07, 2017, 12:56:17 AM
What size are you and what size is the M-65 overwhite?
Mine is much smaller on me than that and mine is a Medium, been trying to find an XL but no luck
I like the added braid too
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: mewolf1 January 08, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
I'm 5'9" 160lbs.
It's a medium, and the place I got them at has Nylon blend XL, but, all cotton stops at Med.
I'm thinking you are handy enough to enlarge your pattern to suit your size?
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 January 08, 2017, 07:37:19 PM
I could but if I could get an XL at the right [ read "Cheap"] price it would make things on the tent building front a touch easier
Could you post a link to the NYCO in XL?
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: mewolf1 January 08, 2017, 10:42:51 PM
http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/clothing/outerwear-rain/military-issue-white-snow-parka-or-overwhite.html
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 January 08, 2017, 11:04:21 PM
Price is right but they do not ship overseas, not even when I asked nicely
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: mewolf1 January 08, 2017, 11:44:11 PM
Buggers!!
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 February 23, 2017, 07:47:31 PM
German Army snow camouflage ponchos were very cheap on eBay so I just spent $25- AUD and bought one.
Useless As-Is for our conditions but roofing silicon is cheap as is white spirit so when it arrives I'll stretch it out tight [ hot wash first to shrink it of course] and waterproof it.
I'll need an insulated liner and I am very tempted to use the Thinsulate that was reserved for my new parka in a hybrid between some UL polyester and some polartec Thermal-Pro
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: rbinhood February 23, 2017, 10:05:25 PM
The description on ebay says it is made from breathable, cotton fabric. I do not understand why you would want to waterproof it with silicone, in the process, turning it into a sauna suit?
Unless you are planning on trimming it up, it looks far too long in the back to be really functional.

Here is an interesting one: https://colemans.com/shop/clothing/coats/parka-u-s-g-i-snow-camo/
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 February 23, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Siliconing does make it highly water resistant but not totally waterproof, but I'm in  Wet-Cold area and making sure you stay dry [ drier anyway] is more important than breathability here, my main reason for using this is because the proofed nylon ones tend to melt when working around an open fire and using this will keep the wind off the LW breathable insulation underneath. With plenty of space between the inner and outer and with all the venting via the hood opening I doubt I will have any condensation worries, I get very few when using my waterproof Swiss or my Dutch army  poncho.
The US army NYCO snow camo parkas are OK but I need an XL to XXL in one, I know this because I already own a Med-large and it's way too small to cover my down parka
If you find an XXL please let me know
The length is almost perfect in the back for me and I keep the front under control with the provided tie-backs, the wrists on these are closed and have elastic in them also
I tend to cut off the bottom corners on these as a routine matter and use the scraps of fabric to make a pocket or two
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: rbinhood February 23, 2017, 10:49:44 PM
Midway USA has them for $9.99 USD, not sure how much shipping would be.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 February 23, 2017, 11:40:30 PM
Midway do not ship International and if they did USPS minimum is more than I just paid
Good price locally tho
I was actually asking about XL /XL in the US army overwhite parka although I could cut mine up to use as a pattern if I had to
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: TZBrown February 27, 2017, 08:12:57 AM
After this weekend with the weather changing from 40f to 20f with freezing rain I am definitely going to have some kind of overcover to shed the freezing rain and wind when setting around the fire.

The hot tent is a great refuge when you have to dry out, but I enjoy the group campfire.

I believe I have 2 of the German army winter camo covers somewhere, gotta find them.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 February 27, 2017, 04:10:25 PM
I use about 10 % silicon in solvent, it is important to get the most flexible silicon compound tho, even if it is more expensive to start with.
I use the same for reproofing nylon and polyester tents and for seam sealing
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 March 02, 2017, 01:55:11 AM
If I make a lining from scratch rather than using the very thin Australian army issue I have what weight of insulation would people recommend
I could also make a woollen blanket liner to use for car camping too
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 March 05, 2017, 01:12:43 AM
Well I just started making a hooded poncho liner to suit. I have used a single bed polyester quilt I bought for $6- in a local Op-Shop
100GSM fibre inside polypropylene scrim, there was enough to fit the poncho and make a hood with a scrap to use for a small pillow left over, 25mm of loft and incredibly warm with the poncho over the top of it, mind you it is still warm here at the start of Autumn
Now having an internal debate about covering it on both sides , lining it with something cosy or slippery of simply stitching it to the cotton shell and using it as-is
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 March 05, 2017, 07:15:14 AM
I just weighed the combo
1500 grams for the liner with hood and the poncho together
The silicon proofing will add about 100 grams
So almost double the weight of a Kifaru Woobie but the same warmth and about the same weight as the nylon poncho plus issue poncho liner but so much warmer, the issue poncho liner is 3mm thick; this is 25mm plus
Note tho that the Kifaru isn't even remotely fire resistant
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 March 06, 2017, 06:12:42 PM
Lets see if Photobucket works

http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/ejmalthouse/media/IMG_9742_zpszltqhnkc.jpg.html

The insulation as-is 25mm thick with polypro scrim on both sides

http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/ejmalthouse/media/IMG_9745_zps1qgcokts.jpg.html


(fixed the photo links for you  ;) )

(http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah183/ejmalthouse/IMG_9742_zpszltqhnkc.jpg)

(http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah183/ejmalthouse/IMG_9745_zps1qgcokts.jpg)
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Bothwell Voyageur March 07, 2017, 11:58:36 AM
What does it look like with a belt/sash?

An interesting idea

: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 March 07, 2017, 03:32:21 PM
What does it look like with a belt/sash?

An interesting idea

When I finish it with the ties and everything I'll take some more pictures.
Obviously being military the hood is huge for wearing over a helmet, but that allows it to be put on over as many hats as you want.
Being a combat disposable they are made from very cheap fabric but silicon will fix that and for the conditions I usually experience the shell does need to be highly water resistant
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: rbinhood March 07, 2017, 07:06:51 PM
Dude, that is one heck of a liner. The combo will certainly be warm, possibly too warm for anything but sitting. Nice job.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 March 07, 2017, 08:27:08 PM
Dude, that is one heck of a liner. The combo will certainly be warm, possibly too warm for anything but sitting. Nice job.

Well keeping my back warm while sitting around the fire is the main reason for making it up, it is long enough in the back to also have something to sit on, which I like.
I was really having a hard time with finding suitable insulation at a reasonable cost.
Now if I need some warm filling I am just going to one of the Big Box stores like target or K-Mart and getting another LW cheap quilt with the cheap polypro scrim. These all seem to be around 100GSM which to me is an ideal layer weight.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: TeleMark July 26, 2018, 07:25:44 AM
A bit belated, but Lester River Bushcraft and GF Asbell stock wool ponchos, and Wilderness Innovations stock two types of synthetic insulated ponchos.
: Re: Cloaks/ponchos as winter clothing
: Moondog55 November 10, 2018, 08:05:32 PM
A bit belated, but Lester River Bushcraft and GF Asbell stock wool ponchos, and Wilderness Innovations stock two types of synthetic insulated ponchos.

I see a lot of these now from many different makers. Also as feedback for anybody interested in making something like this it turned out to be far too warm for doing anything other than sitting around in. Even my beloved wife was too warm in it, it was T-shirt warm at -5C without the fire. About as warm as surplus poncho liners tripled  I'm guessing, partly because the fabric when Nikwaxed is more windproof