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Winter Camping Discussion => Fire and Woodstoves => : Coldfeet December 19, 2017, 01:44:17 PM

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: To much heat?
: Coldfeet December 19, 2017, 01:44:17 PM
Being this my second year using a kni co stove in a canvas tent I recently set it up in my yard to enjoy the last few weekends and spent one night sleeping in it. 
I threw on a few more pieces of wood and crawled into my bag. After a few minutes I became to hot and zipped open the bag.   Then I got even hotter and took my shirt off. Of course the wood burnt up and I got chilled. 

My question is, how do you try to regulate the heating of your tent before going to sleep?  Keep it hot up until an hour before turning in?  Ideas?  I’m guessing it comes with experience. Thanks.
: Re: To much heat?
: snapper December 19, 2017, 02:22:05 PM
Coldfeet - Hopefully more knowledgeable folks will chime in but I think there's a few variables at work here.  One might be the quality of the wood in your stove.  Good hardwoods like maple will give off more heat for a longer period of time than the conifers you're likely to run into. 

Another variable might be you.  Is your energy depleted from a "big day" in the bush or have you been able to stay well fed and hydrated throughout the day.  I don't know about you but I know that when I'm tired, and down a bit on my fluids, I get cold more easily.

I think that's it for the moment.  Hopefully these two comments make sense on some level so take care, enjoy your time in the great north woods and until next time....be well.

snapper

PS - And yes, I think you're right in that experience is probably the best teacher in this case.
: Re: To much heat?
: Bioguide December 19, 2017, 02:36:49 PM
Then I got even hotter and took my shirt off.

Enjoy the moment...
: Re: To much heat?
: Coldfeet December 19, 2017, 02:55:53 PM
Then I got even hotter and took my shirt off.

Enjoy the moment...

Haha, but I was alone. 

Snapper, I was burning hardwood that my friend had delievered to his house. I think I overfed the fire and started to cook. 
Next weeks projected temps in lake placid are in the negatives and I’m taking my daughter camping at the LOJ.   Trying to not cook us at the same time keep the chill down. Wife will kill me if her daughter ( of course not mine when things go south) freezes or burns up!  Just our luck with those temps. She’s thinking of bailing on me because of the low temps.  I wonder if a ride down the toboggan run will entice her to go?  Buddy can you spare $170 for 60 seconds?  Worst of all her friend is in a cabin and we are tenting.   
So, how not to overheat?   Hmmmm, I guess patience? 
: Re: To much heat?
: Bothwell Voyageur December 19, 2017, 04:09:07 PM
The trick is to not zip up to start with. Maybe leave the bag and/or hood open but wear a fleece top and toque if you want a bit more warmth. As the fire dies zip up the side of the bag and then the hood. I always wear a hat or a balaclava to keep the hood of the bag clean anyway so down to zero F I may not do the hood up at all. If you get colder go into full hibernation mode with hood up and closed off so just your nose is sticking out. My wife wears a fleece headband pulled down over her nose to stop the end getting cold but still leave the nostrils free. With experience I have found that I can regulate my warmth without hardly waking, except if I get really cold then I am up searchingh for a down jacket etc.
: Re: To much heat?
: AunNordDuNord December 19, 2017, 04:12:59 PM
Like BV, I don'T zip up and sometime not even get in the bag right away, I would be in my sleeping long underwear  and if I don't want the stove to go out I will stay like that or just use the bag as a blanket and as I get cold I put more wood in the stove... If I want to let the stove go, as I get cold I would move more and more into the bag and then ending up zipping it and all!!

Works great for us!!
: Re: To much heat?
: Jawax December 19, 2017, 06:22:49 PM
Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but it sounds like maybe you didn't damper down your stove enough?  Before bed I get a good hot bed of coals, then pile in a bunch of bigger chunks of wood and then slightly close the damper on exhaust pipes an mostly close the air intake on the stove.  Usually within about 10 minutes I feel the stove cooling down, but it still produces heat for a while depending on the wood.  Without O2 the wood can't burn too hot, and so burns more slowly.  it's an art more than a science. 
: Re: To much heat?
: Coldfeet December 19, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
Thanks BV and ANDN, we are going out for 3 nights so hopefully it will get figured out.


Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but it sounds like maybe you didn't damper down your stove enough?  Before bed I get a good hot bed of coals, then pile in a bunch of bigger chunks of wood and then slightly close the damper on exhaust pipes an mostly close the air intake on the stove.  Usually within about 10 minutes I feel the stove cooling down, but it still produces heat for a while depending on the wood.  Without O2 the wood can't burn too hot, and so burns more slowly.  it's an art more than a science.

Thanks Jawax, I didn't even consider that.  I never close the damper and always burn it that way.  Will have to remember that.  See for me that's not so obvious because of the lack of experience.  Glad I asked the question, I was hesitant about asking.    Now to search a snowshoe question.  Best to all.
: Re: To much heat?
: AunNordDuNord December 19, 2017, 07:59:44 PM
Thanks BV and ANDN, we are going out for 3 nights so hopefully it will get figured out.


Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but it sounds like maybe you didn't damper down your stove enough?  Before bed I get a good hot bed of coals, then pile in a bunch of bigger chunks of wood and then slightly close the damper on exhaust pipes an mostly close the air intake on the stove.  Usually within about 10 minutes I feel the stove cooling down, but it still produces heat for a while depending on the wood.  Without O2 the wood can't burn too hot, and so burns more slowly.  it's an art more than a science.

In my book, questions are always worth asking....


Thanks Jawax, I didn't even consider that.  I never close the damper and always burn it that way.  Will have to remember that.  See for me that's not so obvious because of the lack of experience.  Glad I asked the question, I was hesitant about asking.    Now to search a snowshoe question.  Best to all.
: Re: To much heat?
: Jawax December 19, 2017, 09:30:36 PM
Thanks BV and ANDN, we are going out for 3 nights so hopefully it will get figured out.


Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but it sounds like maybe you didn't damper down your stove enough?  Before bed I get a good hot bed of coals, then pile in a bunch of bigger chunks of wood and then slightly close the damper on exhaust pipes an mostly close the air intake on the stove.  Usually within about 10 minutes I feel the stove cooling down, but it still produces heat for a while depending on the wood.  Without O2 the wood can't burn too hot, and so burns more slowly.  it's an art more than a science.

Thanks Jawax, I didn't even consider that.  I never close the damper and always burn it that way.  Will have to remember that.  See for me that's not so obvious because of the lack of experience.  Glad I asked the question, I was hesitant about asking.    Now to search a snowshoe question.  Best to all.

That's why this forum exist - to help share information and experience.  I've got a lot to learn myself so wasn't sure what you might or might not have tried. 

The Kni-Co stoves have a round dial with two oval intakes about 2 inches long each.  When I get my fire to max heat they are both wide open (and maybe even open the door of the stove an inch) to build up coals.  Once I stack all my wood in for the night, I give it about 3-5 minutes with the 2 air intakes open to let it all start to catch, then close it up so there is maybe 1/4 inch or less on each of the two ovals.  This will help with a slow even burn.  Ive found pine of most types will burn through in about 2-3 hours, but once with some thick elm logs I stept a good 7 hours and awoke to the stove still kicking out some heat.  Hope this helps, and good luck!
: Re: To much heat?
: Jawax December 19, 2017, 09:36:49 PM
....and don't forget to partially close (maybe 1/4 way) the damper on the exhaust pipe.  This will slow the amount of exhaust (and heat) leaving the firebox.
: Re: To much heat?
: brianw December 19, 2017, 09:45:32 PM
Coldfeet

If you are always running your stove wide open with the damper and air intake wide open, you are likely burning your stove hotter than it needs to be.  Get yourself a magnetic chimney thermometer like this one.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=61613&cat=2,42194,73355

It gives you 3 burning temperature ranges.  Burning too cold of a fire creates creosote in your stove pipe, too hot and you cook yourself out of your tent and you'll be using more wood than necessary.  In the optimal burn zone, you are producing a proper amount of heat to be comfortable and use less wood in doing so.

Give it a try, it is well worth the small investment.  For myself, about 30 minutes before I am ready for bed, I stop adding wood to the stove.  I then change into my sleeping clothes (just my base layers) and a wool hat.  I don't zip up the sleeping bag until I need too.  I let the fire go out each night and just rely on my sleep system to keep warm. 

Cheers

Brian
: Re: To much heat?
: mewolf1 December 19, 2017, 11:03:08 PM
HeHe, you say this like it's a problem. ;D 

I've found that no matter how much I shut down my stove at some point in the burn it becomes ALL coals. Hotter that the Hubs of Hell. Like BG said, "Enjoy the moment"
: Re: To much heat?
: scoutergriz December 20, 2017, 08:04:49 AM
definitely damp it down! I'm not the type to fall asleep quickly, so about an hour before bed I'll get a good fire going and read a book, then right before bed I put in a couple of decent logs, close the intake to about 1/4 (mines a slider, so I can tell by touch), and the damper 1/2 way. as it cools I slowly button things up, and sleep 'til morning. The stove'll run 5-6 hours this way with decent wood,and in the morning there are usually enough coals to start it going again.
: Re: To much heat?
: Bothwell Voyageur December 20, 2017, 08:28:45 AM
Not sure why I didn't think to mention closing the stove down.

And plus one on the thermometer, certainly not vital but great to help you learn how your stove works.
: Re: To much heat?
: lonelake December 20, 2017, 08:40:15 AM
I typically let the stove burn way down before heading to sleep. I sleep cold, and would prefer to be bundled up right away. We live, and travel in an area where there is mostly soft woods, so a long extended burn is rare.

LL
: Re: To much heat?
: GearFreak December 20, 2017, 10:51:36 AM
Jawax and others have given you the main solution to regulating the stove.  I find that you feel the drop in temperature enough to be comfortable in your bag.  The stove stays warm enough that even when it is really cold (-25C and lower) the pot of water on the stove only gets a thin layer of ice on it overnight.

These little stoves are an art to manage - Undersky taught me the most on one group trip - would have taken me many trips to learn what he showed me the first night.
: Re: To much heat?
: Coldfeet December 20, 2017, 11:13:47 AM
Yep, valuable information from all.  Thanks. 

The temps are dropping considerability next week, -14f up in the NY ADK area near lake placid. For my daughters safety I told her that it’s bad timing and to cold for her. She’s 21 , traveled Europe, jumped out of planes and hiked some 14ks in Colorado but the low temps I feel are to dangerous to play in.  I too need to be prepared.   But what do I do if she wants to go?  Oh boy...
Another good thread starter, when to tell the Newbi “next time”.  I was told the before and accepted it and understood it was for my own safety plus the groups. 
: Re: To much heat?
: AunNordDuNord December 20, 2017, 12:26:35 PM
Yep, valuable information from all.  Thanks. 

The temps are dropping considerability next week, -14f up in the NY ADK area near lake placid. For my daughters safety I told her that it’s bad timing and to cold for her. She’s 21 , traveled Europe, jumped out of planes and hiked some 14ks in Colorado but the low temps I feel are to dangerous to play in.  I too need to be prepared.   But what do I do if she wants to go?  Oh boy...
Another good thread starter, when to tell the Newbi “next time”.  I was told the before and accepted it and understood it was for my own safety plus the groups.

She's 21!?!!? about time you get her out there experiencing the cold. My daughter is 10 been winter camping since she's born down to -25c easy and survived!! Com on, don't turn her down, if something she will teach you a few things!! 

As for the stove damper, The stove I use have a small chimney and I find that use of the damper some what useless... If you have a 5" flue then the damper should be use IMO. As for the chimney thermometer, they are used for creosote indication, not for best use of wood for the situation and are for normal size 6-8 inch chimney not for 3-4 inch chimney(not hat it won't work but) if I want to stove to burn long after I'm in bed I turn it down and if I need to boil water I turn it up I adjust the stove for my confort and the task needed, not what a thermometer tells me I should have the stove at lol. I burn only resins wood, Lodge Pole Pine, white and black spruce, and never had over built of creosote in the chimney, even after sitting at the same place for multiple days!!

Of course your milage may be different, even using the exact same gear as the next one! Experience, trial and error, mistakes, are all part of learning and no matter what you read and what the next person will tell you even if they have been at it for 40 years( I know carpenters that have been at it for that long and still do shitty work), might not work for you!! 

Have fun

Back to your 21yo child lol bring more than less on that trip, hot water bottle goes a long way along with a good thermos full of her favorite drink!!
: Re: To much heat?
: Coldfeet December 20, 2017, 07:41:57 PM
Yep, valuable information from all.  Thanks. 


Have fun

Back to your 21yo child lol bring more than less on that trip, hot water bottle goes a long way along with a good thermos full of her favorite drink!!

That's exactly what I'm afraid of!   She reminds me of myself at that age and I'm a bit worried!   Pay back is a bit-h
: Re: To much heat?
: GearFreak December 21, 2017, 02:10:51 PM
  But what do I do if she wants to go?  Oh boy...
Another good thread starter, when to tell the Newbi “next time”.  I was told the before and accepted it and understood it was for my own safety plus the groups.

I have taken a bunch of folks into the backcountry many for the first time.  Get a good winter camping gear list and send her some links.  But my hunch is based on the other activities she has participated in she probably has done her research.  Know your "go"/"no go" weather minimums or better yet develop them together so she participates in the decision rather than being told no by dad.

I go underwater to 100', would hike above treeline, and will fly a small plane - but jump out of one - no way! That's crazy!  ha ha

: Re: To much heat?
: Coldfeet December 24, 2017, 05:40:47 PM
Projected temps now -20f for a few consecutive days.  I cancelled my reservations because of the temps.   So I will take my daughter and meet up with friends a bit further south where it will be warmer, -5f!   I know my ability.  A little at a time.  Happy holidays!