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Author Topic: berwin bindings  (Read 15917 times)

Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 03:45:53 pm »
As for xc touring skis, look for some thing like this...http://www.backcountry.com/karhu-guide-ski
So most BC skis will have metal edges or partial edges on them. An other thing you want to be sure, is that the ski have a double camber, like a regular xc ski, not like a down hill ski... I like fish scales on the base, and also use skins for really steep up hills. There is a lot of ski out there on the use market.
these are one of the best one on the market http://www.mec.ca/Apps/outdoorGearSwap/gearswap_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302884102&refNo=363518&category_cd=Snowsports&sub_category_cd=Skis
I have the E99, narrower version, and they are great skis. They go new for around $600....

As fro the Berwin binding will fit on any touring and BC skis, the hole pattern, is the same as the 3 pin binding system.

It is easy to plug the holes if they don't match and redrill as needed.

Cheers
David

Offline Slush Walker

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2012, 04:07:50 pm »
David and others- How do the longer BC skis like the Karhu's work for pulling a toboggan?  Do you get enough traction compared to a traditional snowshoe for example. 

-SW
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 04:43:50 pm by Slush Walker »
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Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 06:49:26 pm »
If you use the climbing skins, you have a lots of traction!! other than on ice ::)
Cheers


Offline HOOP

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 07:27:12 pm »
I'm thinking of moving away from my uninsulated Garmont 3-pin ski boots and to just use my winter Sorel pac boots with my skis.
One less pair of boots carried and the ability to move between ski and snowshoe with ease would be a good thing.

Hi Ted,
At one time I had Berwins mounted on my Karhu's, and I used my pac boots.  I found the pacs to be uncomfortable.  I would get over-heated in them and the skin on my feet became very susceptible to blisters.  The rubber pac bottoms do not form on the foot, and I got slippage.  Slippage combined with overly hot feet led to bad blister problems.   I have asked around to people who use Berwins, and most of them seem to prefer using mukluks or moccasins, which will flex well and not be a bathtub around the foot.

I may go back to Berwins and mukluks, but I need a new pair of both, and another pair of skis to mount the Berwins on, and its just one those things on the wish list of yet more gear! (does it ever end with winter camping?   :)
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Wintertrekker

"I firmly believe that far from hurting the planet, the growing knowledge of Bushcraft is helping our natural world. When we employ bushcraft skills, it may seem as though we are consuming natural resources.  But of course, the more we learn about the trees, the plants, the animals around us, the more we respect them. The more we respect them, the more we cherish them, the more we nurture and take care of them. That is the underlying principle of Bushcraft.

Offline Tomd

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2012, 09:28:12 pm »
I know someone who had a pair of the approach skis from Bean. He said they were very poor value-didn't glide at all and started to come apart quickly. Not the Marquette skis, a different brand.

I'm no expert, but I spent a lot of time looking at skis and asking questions before buying mine. I bought Atomic Rainier skis. Got a deal on them and put Voile 3 pin cable bindings and their release plate on them. Sold them at the end of last season, but would replace them with something similar or slightly fatter if I was getting another pair.

For a b/c ski, I would get a metal edge shaped ski no less than 60mm at the waist and maybe even bigger. In soft snow, my Rainiers were too skinny to float. Do not get track skis-too skinny, no edges and for that reason, almost impossible to turn unless you are an expert - worthless off track. I would look at Atomic, Karhu, Rossignol or Fischer. Some of the skis are really similar since they are made by the same company under different brands.
Here is an example-
http://tinyurl.com/amc2xey
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 09:29:44 pm by Tomd »

Offline Ted

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2012, 10:14:50 pm »
thanks for all the replies everybody.
Unless we start getting some snow around here, my winter camping is pretty well hopeful-thinking anyway.
If I get a chance at some serious trekking this January-February, I'll re-think the Berwins and mukluk combo .

Cheers Ted
http://www.parkerclan.ca
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Offline Bioguide

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 04:18:56 pm »
Hello Everyone, I've been literally driven to the point of total physical exhaustion with my first (and last) experience cross-country skiing which occurred a decade or so ago. I won't go into the details of that experience but since then I've stuck to snowshoes to haul a sled. I'm now considering adding XC-skiing to getting around, mainly on lakes and snowmobile trails/hiking trails here in the Adirondacks. I've done a fair amount of searching/reading on using the Berwin bindings; as I like the idea that using the Berwins I would not have to change boots to use my snowshoes. Hans had recommended to me the Marquette Backcountry ski and this might be an option. However I've read many reviews that the Karhu line is by far the way to go but they are no longer available here in NA. I do see that they are made at least here in the US under another name:

http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/madshus-epoch-backcountry-skis.html (these are formerly the Karhu XCD 10th Mountain ski).

http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/madshus-eon-backcountry-skis.html (these are formely the Karhu XCD GT)

My question is: would the Eon or Epoch backcountry ski be a good pair of skis, using berwin bindings, for hauling a sled on lakes and snowmobile trails, breaking trail on hiking trails, and to use at a base camp for day trips? If so, which would you recommend the Eon or Epoch?
I would appreciate anyone’s thoughts on this.
Bioguide
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 04:33:39 pm by bioguide »

Offline kinguq

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 04:52:08 pm »
I've done a fair amount of searching/reading on using the Berwin bindings; as I like the idea that using the Berwins I would not have to change boots to use my snowshoes.

If you are using modern snowshoes and bindings there is no reason why you would have to change your boots. I use my Salomon leather ski boots often while snowshoeing and they work fine. This lets me use both modes even on day trips. I can carry either the skis or the snowshoes strapped to my daypack. I find this useful if I am travelling from lake to lake. I can use the skis on the lakes and the shoes for bushwacking.

I have not used the Berwins, but I would guess they would degrade your skiing performance substantially. I can see that they would be useful in extreme cold when you need a boot warmer than most commercial ski boots, but other than that...

Kinguq.

Offline HOOP

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 04:54:59 pm »
Hi Bioguide,

That's great news that Madshus is manufacturing the old Karhu XCD 10th Mountain skis!  They are great skis.

Many of us use backcountry skis to haul sled, so skis in general are worth it for sure.  They also provide a wonderful day tripping experience if you set up a base camp and have clear lake or trails to ski on.  But.......

Especially with waxless skis (e.g. like the Epoch/10th Mountain), I strongly recommend purchasing climbing skins, either kicker skins or full length skins.  There will be snow conditions and hills where without skins, you are not moving with a sled - skins are essential for grip.  I have even had free skiing conditions (no sled) with dry granular airy sugar snow that does not compress under the kick (round crystals which don't grip) where the waxless base would not grip at all, and had to ski the flats with skins.  I have skied crusts where the fish scales were not gripping and I needed the skins, etc.   (That said, I have had superior days with my waxless Karhus where I was breaking trail for the waxable skis guys behind me who were unable to get the wax dialed in for the day, especially the warm and wet days where waxless excels).

For the ski itself, its not about the bindings in terms of kick and glide, or lack thereof when we are talking basic  shuffle skiing and hauling a big load.  Its about grip and ski floatation.  A berwin on those skis will work just as well as on another make of backcountry skis for the purpose it is intended.  Therefore I don't have a specific comment yeah or nay about the bindings choice because IMO its not the factor for making it work. 

A stiff soled back country ski boat and 75mm binding is going to give you a better grip when doing hill climbing using a herringbone technique.  The berwin is not for carving downhill telemark turns of course.  But on the flats and for winter camping many people prefer it and use it.   Me, having tried berwins in the past, I still prefer my leather ski boots because they transfer the force to the ski better than a soft mukluk or pac.  But I do have to carry extra weight and bulk with my pac boots, and not a trip goes by when I swear next time I am going to switch to berwins.   I hate having to change footware during the day between ski boots and pac boots, especially in the deep cold and wind.  I like to free ski on days off, and I just like the ski boot and binding, but I pay a weight price for it.  Many people who are members here use and prefer berwins for their sled hauling trips.  I know one hard core solo trekker here who has a pair of berwins on his big Karhu Guides and swears by them.

My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Wintertrekker

"I firmly believe that far from hurting the planet, the growing knowledge of Bushcraft is helping our natural world. When we employ bushcraft skills, it may seem as though we are consuming natural resources.  But of course, the more we learn about the trees, the plants, the animals around us, the more we respect them. The more we respect them, the more we cherish them, the more we nurture and take care of them. That is the underlying principle of Bushcraft.

Offline Bioguide

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2012, 05:16:18 pm »
Thanks for this information Hoop. It's very helpful. I would like to hear the pros/cons from the hard core solo trekker who uses the berwins on his Karhu Guides. The Guides are also avaiable in the US:

http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/madshus-annum-backcountry-skis.html (formerly Karhu XCD Guide)


Offline Tomd

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 07:31:20 pm »
Hoop, I forgot to mention I had skins. Mine were Black Diamond full skins. They looked like blue and white cowhide. On a hardpacked road, skins were absolutely necessary to pull my sled.

Offline Trailpatrol

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2012, 10:40:10 pm »
The LL Bean Boreal Sliding Snowshoes are basically a re-hash of the old Karhu Meta/Sweeper skis, and although the Berwin is likely a much better binding match than the old Karhu "Universal" (It wasn't) binding, it is not the Marquette BC ski. (I have not received a Bean Winter Sports catalog for a few years, so I finally looked it up online.) I had a pair of Metas, but the former binding would not work for me, so I sold them.

Karhu of Finland still makes an excellent "forest ski", the Jakt, (not to be confused with the pre-2009 Karhu "Jak", a BC/Telemark Alpine Touring ski) but due to their non-compete agreement with Madshus/K-2, they cannot be sold in in the US or Canada. As I said earlier, if you have connections traveling in northern Europe or Russia, they can pick up a pair of Jakts for you. (My sister plans to do so for me while visiting her inlaws in Russia.) The Karhu Jakt is very comparable to the old Trak Bushwacker II/Karhu Orion/Karhu Catamount.

The Marquette Backcountry skis are designed to bridge the gap between snowshoes and skis. I had a chance of look at them at the Symposium, and lost a lot of my initial skepticism. They are significantly wider than the LL Bean Sliding Snowshoe, and have NO camber. They are a flat, fishscale base ski with a raised shovel. In other words, they really are a "sliding snowshoe". I hope to try a pair out this winter, and maybe save my sister the expense of finding, buying and hauling back a pair of the Karhus for me. Unless I missed something, I think I am reading a number of opinions here based on reading and looking at pictures and videos, and so far, nobody who has actually tried the Marquette skis.

All I can suggest, for BioGuide, is find someplace that rents them, and give 'em a try. (What are they renting for BC skis at Adirondac Loj? That is where I had my first exposure to the original Trak Bushwacker; forever my favorite skis.)

Ski safe,
Hans
"My country isn't a country, it is winter" - Gilles Vigneault

Offline Trailpatrol

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 12:25:25 pm »
BioGuide (and all)
I just got off the phone with the Heart Lake Trail Center at ADK Loj. Currently, their rental ski are Alpina Terrain BC skis, They reccomend them for touring, rather than climbing and Telemarking.

Ski safe,
Hans
"My country isn't a country, it is winter" - Gilles Vigneault

Offline Tomd

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Re: berwin bindings
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2012, 10:46:02 pm »
Bothwell, I'm no expert, but did spend quite a bit of time looking at BC skis before buying a pair a couple of years ago. You can ask on www.telemarktips.com, which, as the name implies is a tele site, but some of the members have b/c skis. They can be a bit snarky at times, but overall, are pretty helpful. I got much of my info from them.
Some info can be found here-
http://www.wildsnow.com
Here is an older site, but has some good basic info-
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html

Choosing a ski is like a lot of gear-way too many choices. My suggestion for most uses would be a shaped metal-edged waxless touring ski with a waist of at least 60mm and depending on your weight, at least 180mm long, with something like a Voile three pin cable binding or if you want something for alpine touring a Dynafit AT binding (which I have never used, but they seem popular). For boots, I had a pair of Garmont Excursions, which is a lightweight plastic touring boot (looks like a smaller downhill boot). Got mine used since new they are pricey. Dyna-fits require an AT boot, which also looks like a downhill boot.