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Author Topic: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions  (Read 9110 times)

Offline cousin Pete

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Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« on: March 19, 2013, 07:21:08 pm »
I have been looking for a good backcountry ski with good floatation without having to sacrifice good kick and glide.  Up until this point I had narrowed it down to the Madshus Eon(83-62-70), Madshus Epoch(99-68-84) and the Rossignol BC 90(88-60-78).  The Madshus Epoch looks like it will be solid for floatation with some compromise on the kick and glide.  As HOOP has mentioned it would not ski as straight as the Madshus Eon.  The other two skis would likely be solid for kick and glide but would likely not do as well in floatation due to the narrow waist. 

HOOP has mentioned that the Karhu Orions(85-70-80) are an ideal ski for backcountry condtions.  Unfortunately they are not being made anymore.  The Fischer S Bound(88-68-78) has almost identical dimensions.  With a waist of 68, this should really help with the floatation.  The side cut doesn't seem too extreme.  This should help the ski glide fairly straight.  Here are some links to check it out:

http://www.fischersports.com/en/Nordic/Products/Skis/S-Bound/3365-S-Bound-88

http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/fischer-s-bound-88-skis.html

http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/fischer-s-bound-88-skis-reviews.html

A slightly wider ski is the Fischer S Bound 98(98-69-88):  http://www.fischersports.com/en/Nordic/Products/Skis/S-Bound/3366-S-Bound-98

Any comments or opinions would be appreciated. 

Take care,
Cousin Pete
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 09:07:50 pm by cousin Pete »
"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908

Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost cut to Karhu Orions
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 07:31:36 pm »
What about the Fischer E series (Europa)? I have a pair of E99 that I like a lot, if I could get an other pair, I would probably go with the E109... They are great skis, tough, and well made!
Just a thought.

Offline cousin Pete

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 08:58:23 pm »
Hello AunNordDuNord:  Thank you very much for your suggestion.  The E99s(66-54-61) were a ski that had been suggested to me.  My concern is with their floatation.  Most of the skiing that I am doing is along the Sunday Lake Dog Sled Trail in Algonquin Park.  When the trail is groomed, my current skis are basically fine.  They are very simple with almost no side cut.  They are almost 56 cm all around.  Where I run into trouble is when I go off of the established trail or when the trail get blown over.  This often happens on my trips and I sink down a good 6"-8".  The skiing then becomes labourious and unpleasant.  I need a ski with a good combination of good float, skis in a fairly straight line and has decent kick and glide.  On the recent trip report that I did, HOOP had suggested that for my purposes the Madshus Epoch would might give better floatation than the Mashus Eon or the Rossignol BC 90.  The Fischer E 99s would have significantly less floatation than the Eon or the BC 90.  Through HOOP's extensive experience with backcountry skiing he believes that the Karhu Orion has the ideal dimensions for backcountry tripping.  Since the Orion is no longer being made and since the Fischer S Bound 88 has almost identical dimensions it seems to be closest to the Orion that is currently being produced.  As such, I am now very strongly leaning towards this ski.  How do you find the floatation on the Fisher 99s when going off trail or skiing on lakes?  How deep do your skis sink when going off the established trail?

Take care,
Cousin Pete
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 09:08:34 pm by cousin Pete »
"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908

Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 09:45:51 pm »
I'm 6'2" and weight at 230lbs...  Our snow up here is really light and dry. my skis are 215cm( they don't make them that long anymore) and I do sink a bit, but I don't try to pick up the skis wile skiing, and some time I don't see them for hours at the time... A wider ski would definitely be a bit better, but then you have a ski that is not as versatile, IMO.

Offline cousin Pete

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 10:28:03 pm »
Hello AunNordDuNord:  Thanks again for your comments.  When it comes to versatility, no one ski will be suitable for all conditions.  I have my current skis which are ideal for set trails.  They have double camber and have good kick and glide.  Since they are almost the same width all around they are also really good for skiing in a straight direction.  While they are really good for set trails, they are not suitable for the backcountry.  I only want to purchase one set of backcountry skis.  Based on my needs  for the backcountry, the Fischer S88s seem to be the perfect combination.  They would have really good floatation and decent kick and glide.  Since the sidecut is not too extreme, I think they would ski in a reasonably straight line.  For me, I think they would be totally versatile in that environment. 

Take care,
Cousin Pete
"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908

Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 11:31:24 pm »
If you end up getting them, please keep us posted on your observations, finds!!
Cheers
David

Offline Goski

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2013, 11:11:42 pm »
I have 175 cm Karhu Orion and like them very much, but they're are getting a bit worn out, so I got last year Madshus Eon 185cm long to compensate for slightly less width. When it comes to flotation I find Madshus almost equivalent to Karhus, but a little lighter and turning better (more sidecut).  In denser mountain snow I think I prefer Madshus, but on fluffy cold northern prairie snow I prefer Orion, but there isn't a big difference between these two.  I am about 170-some lbs, but with a backpack it's usually 200+ lbs. 

Cheers

Offline cousin Pete

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2013, 07:43:20 pm »
Hello Goski: Thanks for your reply.  I actually purchased a pair of the Fischer S Bound 88 skis(179 cm) a few days ago for a sweet price.  The Eon skis and the S Bound 88 skis have received a lot of solid reviews.  I am looking forward to trying out the Fischers next winter.  how do you find the kick and glide with the Eons on solid packed trails?

Take care,
Cousin Pete
"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908

Offline Kaifus

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 11:49:22 pm »
Cousin Pete, I'm no expert or even knowledgeable about skis but 179cm seams short to me for back country use.  I'm only 5 foot six inches tall but my skis are 200cm and I can herringbone up a hill fine without stepping on the backs of the skis. I do know that the longer the ski the better floatation which is an important thing for back country use.  I've never wished my skis were shorter but I have wished they were longer.

Offline cousin Pete

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 05:05:15 pm »
Hello Kaifus:  Thank you very much for your input.  I went with the 179 cm length for a couple of reasons.  I weigh about 145 pounds and I am just under 5'8" in height.  In general, I prefer shorter skis even when there is already an existing trail.  Even if I am not breaking trail, I prefer about a 185 cm length.  I find it easier to climb up hills and to ski down hills with shorter skis.  My dad is just a little taller than me and he is built like a brick house, and he prefers his skis to be 185 cm in length as well.  Based on what I have read on this site and on other sites, the general rule of thumb seems to be that the wider the ski, the shorter that it can be.  Given my weight and given the width of the ski that I purchased(88-68-78), I could have gone with either the 179 cm length or the 189 cm length.   For my purposes(skiing packed trails, breaking trail, moving through bush, skiing down hills, climbing up hills), I would not want to go with the 189 cm length. 

Take care,
Cousin Pete
"Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around." - G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1908

Offline K.

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Re: Backcountry ski with almost same dimensions as Karhu Orions
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 12:34:13 pm »
Cousin Pete, I think you are on to a good thing here, I have the same ski. I started in Algonquin with 210 cm skis, then 200, and now I have the same 179 cm length of Sbound skis. For my purposes, that ski is a perfect match to the range of conditions in the park. The 20 mm sidecut will not track particularly well on a tracked-in ski trail and it will tend to slide all over the place on a hard packed snowmobile trail. But, turn them off -trail and into the woods and they are unmatched. In hardwoods, you can generally find enough space to link turns on a downhill slope. If by chance you find an alder swamp in your way, you can bust right through it instead of going around. Hope you have as much fun with them as I did! Keep us posted.