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Author Topic: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?  (Read 13725 times)

Offline michel

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2014, 07:03:00 pm »
I have the E99 crown waxless . My favorite for unpack trail and tough bush country, good grip for uphill and not too fast wen you go down . with Salomon adv .X binding it is the perfect match. For hard pack trail it is better to use lighter and narrower ski.     

Offline moosehide

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2014, 07:21:41 pm »
Well Scott you got me looking at the Fischer E109. I am surprised tho,very few dealers on line handle them.

Offline lilcliffy

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2015, 12:55:38 pm »
Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum and online "foruming" in general.  I live in rural central New Brunswick- in one of the maritime snowbelts.  My everyday skiing is off-trail backcountry-xcountry skiing on predominantly gentle, rolling terrain.  In short; my "quiver" for backcountry-xcountry skis has evolved to include a wide range of skis from slim 60mm shovel, 210cm, stiff double-cambered, 3/4 metal-edged; to fat 109mm shovel, 195cm, soft 1.5-cambered, full metal-edged skis.  And I am afraid that I would not want to be without the selection! 

In response to the above question- I am suggesting to not rule out fat, xcountry-downhill hybrid skis for backcountry-xcountry skiing on gentle terrain.  However; you will need to ignore the marketing focus towards downhill telemark skiing- get as long as length as you can!  Long length = glide!

For most of my years skiing I have always been convinced that long (I prefer 205-210cm), narrow, metal-edged, double-cambered classic skis are the only best choice for backcountry-xcountry skiing on flat to rolling terrain.  Like many of your comments; I have always had both waxable and waxless bases to choose from.  This is especially important in maritime winter conditions that can constantly change (we get a lot of snow- but no stable winter temperatures).

Over the last 4 seasons I have become turned on to using telemark-xcountry hybrid skis (i.e. XCD) (e.g. Karhu/Madshus XCD; Fischer S-Bound) as a regular choice in my backcountry-xcountry skiing on flat to rolling terrain.  For most of my years I have always assumed that these skis are truly telemark skis and have reserved them for that use alone in mountainous terrain.

However- and this brings me to my long-winded point :P - much of my everyday skiing is spontaneously rushing home from work (hopefully early!) to take advantage of deep, fresh powder to stride and glide through.  In these conditions, at least in the Maritimes, I have never been pleased with the flotation of traditional long, skinny skis.  So beginning 4 years ago I began experimenting with long-length XCD hybrid skis, mated to NNNBC bindings/boots.  I ended up testing and comparing the Madshus/Karhu XCDs and the Fischer S-Bounds.

And this is where I discovered a significant difference between the Karhu/Madshus XCD and the Fischer S-Bounds...The Karhu/Madshus XCD (like the Fischers) have fat shovels, ample sidecut, and relatively soft 1.5 camber- BUT the Karhu/Madshus XCDs have narrower, straighter tails (i.e. the Fischers have a true parabolic shape).  In short- my experience is that the Karhus/Madshus XCDs glide and track more efficiently than the Fischers.  The Fischers do, at least inherently, offer better downhill performance.

I have ended up purchasing the Madshus Eon (Karhu XCD GT), Epoch (Karhu XCD 10th Mtn), and Annum (Karhu XCD Guide)- all mated to NNNBC bindings (between my wife and my two oldest children we have ended up using them all extensively).

By far our two favorites are the Eon and the Annum.  The Eon offers the best glide, lengths up to 205cm- waxable, and waxless base.  The Annum (up to 195cm) will outperform the Eon when striding through very deep, fresh powder.  Even the waxless base of the Annum provides excellent grip in fresh powder because it is so wide.  However; the Annum is severely inefficient on more stable, denser, and/or harder snow.

However- in order to save money- if I had to choose one XCD ski for xcountry striding- it would be the Epoch.  It sits in the middle between the Eon and the Annum.   The Epoch is a bit of a jack-of-all trades- perhaps a master of none (at least in this context).

I apologize for this long-winded essay- but my suggestion is not to rule out the wider hybrid skis for classic backcountry-xcountry striding.

This has not changed my passion for traditional narrow, double-cambered backcountry skis.  My current favorite is the Madshus Voss, 210cm, waxable.

On an everyday-basis, I am currently skiing on all of these skis with NNNBC manual bindings and Alpina Alaska NNNBC boots.

Offline HOOP

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 01:19:22 pm »
Welcome Lilcliffy!   That was an excellent review!  No need to apologize for long winded-ness (I ...ahem...suffer from that affliction myself!   :)  )   

My quiver of skis is large enough that I cannot justify yet another pair (for now), but I do truly lust after those Madshus Eon's in waxable. 
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Wintertrekker

"I firmly believe that far from hurting the planet, the growing knowledge of Bushcraft is helping our natural world. When we employ bushcraft skills, it may seem as though we are consuming natural resources.  But of course, the more we learn about the trees, the plants, the animals around us, the more we respect them. The more we respect them, the more we cherish them, the more we nurture and take care of them. That is the underlying principle of Bushcraft.

Offline moosehide

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2015, 02:35:33 pm »
Nice report lilcliffy.

I bought the E109 Fischer after long debate this year,I am surprised how light they are,problem is where I live in Minnesota we have no snow this year,but it looks like a great ski,just waiting.

Offline kimmoe

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2015, 04:38:31 am »
I like straight wide skies without steel edges for flat land.
Telemark skies are a compromise between how far you have to ski before you go downhill and how often you have a hill to go down from.
Then my brother and i hunt mountaingrouse in the mountains i run faster than he on traditional wood skies then the top snow has 10" soft snow on flat to small hill and he run downhill and on hard surface mountaintops faster and safer than me with ~80-65mm telemark skies.

Offline lilcliffy

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2015, 08:44:18 pm »
Well Scott you got me looking at the Fischer E109. I am surprised tho,very few dealers on line handle them.

This is a very interesting ski.  It is in Fischer's Backcountry line- not the S-Bound.  It has a very similar profile to the S-Bound 78 (78-61-69mm).  In fact; the E109 (82-60-70mm) has even more sidecut and parabolic shape than the S-Bound 78.  That would leave me with at least the impression that the S-Bound 78 might track more efficiently than the E-109.  They both have a "nordic rocker" camber- this requires a softer flex than a classic double-cambered ski.  I have been under the impression (from personal experience) that Fischer's Backcountry line has a stiffer flex than the S-Bound...this would greatly affect the performance of these skis...classic kick and glide (stiffer flex) versus downhill performance (soft flex).  However; I have no personal experience with either of these skis specifically (I do have experience with other skis in both lineups).

However; I am not sure if I understand the profile of the E109...If the E109 has a relatively stiff double camber and is available in long classic lengths- these features are designed to facilitate classic kick and glide efficiency...however the profile of the ski would seem to contradict that...confusing...

Parabolic sidecut is all the rage in ski design..is the sidecut in the E109 the result of intelligent design... or just the result of the trend to add parabolic sidecut to every ski?

As an alternative- with a similar profile- take a look at the Madshus Eon/Karhu XCD GT (83-62-70mm).  The Eon has a hybrid flex (1.5 camber)- in my experience, stiffer than the S-Bounds; softer than Fischer's Backcountry line.  The Eon has a relatively straight tail and tracks very efficiently. It is widely available.  Unlike the Fischers, the Eon is no longer made in Europe.  However- as a result of being made in China- the Eon is significantly cheaper!  I have several hundred kilometers on my current with no quality or durability issues.

Offline lilcliffy

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2015, 09:03:30 pm »
Nice report lilcliffy.

I bought the E109 Fischer after long debate this year,I am surprised how light they are,problem is where I live in Minnesota we have no snow this year,but it looks like a great ski,just waiting.

Cool- I have skied on the E89 and E99 and they are excellent classic double-cambered backcountry-xcountry skis.  The more pronounced parabolic sidecut on the E109 will in theory offer more efficient downhill performance.  However- if they are as stiff as the E89/E99 they will require quite a bit of skill to flatten and control in a downhill turn.   You will have to let us know how they perform!

Sorry to hear about the lack of snow...I've had a lot of snow so far this season- but horribly extreme changes in temperature and precipitation (more like Nova Scotia  than central New Brunswick -yuck!).   Anyway my skiing so far this season has had to be very opportunistic.  Long-range is looking much more favorable.

I will do a snow dance for you tomorrow- 20+cm of fresh stuff in my forecast!

Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: Your Preferred back country ski-mostly woods and lake-flat country?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2015, 09:12:00 pm »
I have an old paire of crown E99 215cm(they don't make them that long anymore), with 3 pins binding and double leather boots. they are great skis, They are quite fast, they float me alright, but man ho man I would like a shorter after ski for in the bush, 215cm is lot of ski to turn on bushy down hill!!