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Author Topic: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?  (Read 11224 times)

Offline Hutchy

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Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« on: March 15, 2015, 08:12:29 pm »


Just sitting, and pondering how to get some more efficiency out of my non-existent stove...

So, fabricland has cheap fleece by the roll. I was thinking about a liner for my 8x10.  If I have some time this summer, why not sew up a white liner to go over the poles first, and then the rest of the tent to go over it. Sure, some space might be lost by sagging fabric, but I imagine it would cut how much firewood you burn in half.

I think that there would have to  be an attachment point from the liner to where the guy lines pull out the sides of the tent. In a stuffsack, the liner would not weigh much more than an extra sleeping bag. Around the stove some aluminum flashing would be used in lieu of the fleece.

Just a thought at this point, but has anyone done, or tried this?

Used to be the man made the gear, now it seems the gear makes the man...

Offline Bioguide

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 09:13:02 pm »
There is this which I bet retains the heat nicely:

http://www.explorationtents.com/insulated-wall-tents.html



MATERIALS:

OUTER COVER:

FABRIC IS BLEACHED HEAVY DUTY  “DOUBLE FILL” MARINE ( PRE SHRUNK) ARMY DUCK, 10.10 OZ./YD. SQ., COTTON CANVAS, TREATED WITH A DRY FINISH,”SUNFORGER” FLAME RETARDANT. WATER, ROT, MOLD, AND MILDEW RESISTANT  COATINGS, (AFTER TREATMENT WEIGHT, APPROX. 11.5 OZ./ YD. SQ.). THE FABRIC MEETS OR EXCEEDS CPAI-84 SECT. #7, SPECIFICATIONS FOR FLAME RETARDANCY.

 INSULATION:

1” THICK, SPUN BONDED POLYESTER FIBERFILL BATTING, FLAME RETARDANT TO CPAI-84 SECT. #7 SPECS. THIS FABRIC WILL NOT ABSORB MOISTURE.

Offline GearFreak

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 11:02:38 pm »
Hutch: You got a sled to carry the load right?
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not."

Dr. Seuss - "The Lorax"

Offline AunNordDuNord

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2015, 11:07:09 pm »
The Arctic oven inner tent is made of a white fabric that have some thickness to it and that tent was the warmest tent I ever had... But it was really heavy for its size and small for its weight!!

I don't know about the fleece, it might work... I was thinking of getting some reflextit(spelling), the bubble wrap aluminize on both side, I would get a a 4 feet wide section the length of the tent ridge line, and put it in-between the tent and the ridge pole. that would reflect heat and light nicely I think.

Offline Hutchy

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2015, 11:27:51 pm »
Yea I have toboggans.

It would be best suited to longer stays, while staying for a while in one spot. I feel like a microfleece would be a nice compromise between warmth and weight. Still, it would add like eight pounds, but might be worth it?

And besides. I know lots of guys who swear by their arctic ovens. If I got one of those I would need a helicopter to air lift it wherever I was going. Yes, efficient and I have felt the inner fabric, but my goodness they are heavy.

Often me and the gf go out on the lake, set up the snowtrekker and spend a weekend fishing, and sleep on the ice. Usually that is by snowmobile, and we use a chainsaw to cut wood, but I think a liner would be awesome for that.

Also, I have a new trapzone, and although I live close by, and can easily take a snowmobile there, I would like to take a few weeks next winter and trap out of the tent. Another reason to do it on foot, is because there is a massive deer yard in the middle of  my zone, and multiple packs of wolves in there. On foot would allow me to hunt them more effectively.

These would be where I want to use this, so as much as I am anti weight, I am not averse to it in this case.



Used to be the man made the gear, now it seems the gear makes the man...

Offline arcticmag

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 06:58:21 am »
I'm sure it would make a big difference in warmth. The 14X16 Weatherport tents we're living in in the arctic have ¼ inch thick loose weave poly-something in the end walls and ¼ inch reflectex foil sheets going over the roof and that keeps the heat in from the oil stove quite well.
Make friends with the wolf, but keep your axe ready.

Offline kinguq

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 08:44:06 am »
I think you might have a problem with condensation and frost formation on the inner canvas layer under some conditions. The warm, relatively moist air in the tent slowly passes through the fleece layer, cooling as it goes. When it hits the cold inner surface of the canvas, the moisture will tend to condense out as liquid or frost, depending on the temperature.

For this reason, insulated tents usually have an impermeable inner layer and rely on ventilation for air exchange. The moisture does not condense on the inner surface because it is warm, and it cannot reach the cold outer layer.

I added an insulating layer to a wall tent some years ago, consisting of a layer of thinsulate and coated nylon on the inside. It worked well heated only be a Coleman stove at temps in the -30's (I was living on Baffin Island at the time). Never any problem with condensation. I still have the tent but never use it as it is way too warm to use with a woodstove.

Kinguq.




Offline Hutchy

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 08:55:43 am »
Good point on the condensation. And its not like you are going to take the liner off, re set up the tent, and thaw and dry off the outer layer. I know the inner liner of the arctic ovens are air permeable, but from what I have heard, they do not suffer from condensation issues.

A wall tent relies on heat to push moisture through the outer layer to remain breathable and avoid moisture buildup. Issue is, if I use a moisture barrier on the inside of the tent, I defeat the purpose of the breathability of the cotton tent.  I wonder if double wall canvas tents have this condensation issue.
Used to be the man made the gear, now it seems the gear makes the man...

Offline kinguq

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 09:21:35 am »
I have used double wall canvas tents and yes, sometimes you do get condensation (generally frost) between the layers, under cold conditions. If it warms up you can usually burn off the frost, but if not they can be a problem to pack up.

For an impermeable wall tent heated with a wood stove, I don't think condensation will be much of an issue when the stove is going. The stove uses air, so air has to be coming into the tent somehow. You have to provide adequate ventilation but this is easily done.

You do get condensation in the morning after the stove has been dead for some time. But this happens sometimes even with permeable tents.

Just my opinions, go ahead and try it. It might work under your conditions.

Kinguq.

Offline APPaul

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 09:41:14 am »
Why not consider something lighter and brighter like a 30Denier nylon or something similar. Although I have no experience with hot tents, my winter tent (MEC North Wind) seems to retain heat by using the layer of air between the fly and the inner canopy and not the fabrics themselves. I am sure that fleece would retain more heat than thin nylon, but maybe the bulk to efficiency ratio (of the nylon vs fleece) could make it a consideration (albeit the nylon would be more expensive).
Just a thought.





Offline arcticmag

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 09:44:34 am »
I've spent a lot of winters living in double wall canvas tents heated with either an airtight wood stove or diesel Bradley stove and I've never seen moisture or frost collect in or on the walls. With the airtights, the stove burns down to coals by morning so the tent is cool or cold.

On the other hand, with the new Weatherport tents with impermeable liners, we always have frost buildup in the corners and edges.

Make friends with the wolf, but keep your axe ready.

Offline kinguq

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 09:47:30 am »
I've spent a lot of winters living in double wall canvas tents heated with either an airtight wood stove or diesel Bradley stove and I've never seen moisture or frost collect in or on the walls. With the airtights, the stove burns down to coals by morning so the tent is cool or cold.

On the other hand, with the new Weatherport tents with impermeable liners, we always have frost buildup in the corners and edges.



Probably the difference is that we were heating with a Coleman stove or similar, so the interior of the tent would be much more humid. A chimneyed stove makes for a much dryer environment. So the fleece liner might work fine with a woodstove I guess.

Kinguq

Offline acurrier

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2015, 10:21:17 am »
On my last trip I spent some time in BV's tent where he had some reflective material hanging from the rear wall of his tent. I was actually really surprised how much heat got reflected back into the tent.

Ultimately, at -30c a bit of insulation wont retain heat very long after your stove burns out. If you are looking to increase efficiency while your stove is running, you will get much more mileage out of a reflective fabric, for the weight.

Offline Hutchy

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2015, 10:29:30 am »
Does a breathable refletive fabric exist, or is a a unicorn fur kind of thing?
Used to be the man made the gear, now it seems the gear makes the man...

Offline acurrier

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Re: Fleece liner for Snowtrekker?
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2015, 10:35:10 am »
I'm not aware of any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You wouldn't want to use it on the entire interior of your tent, just one or two walls. You would probably end up cooking yourself if the entire tent was reflective. Need to let some of the heat dissipate.