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Author Topic: Boiling water...  (Read 5467 times)

Offline Tomek

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Boiling water...
« on: February 20, 2008, 10:33:33 am »
How long will it take to boil a liter of water on MSR Dragonfly using coleman fuel? Will 750ml of fuel be enough for a weekend (two nights) cooking?

Another question... what pots/pans do you guys use to cook with over open fire? I want to get some just to have soup simmering over fire and keeping the water hot etc. It wont be the same lightweight cook sets you use on gas stove right??

thanx

Offline scoutergriz

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 06:04:15 pm »
I just use an old 1kg (2lb) coffee can with a piece of baling wire for a handle. I keep it in a plastic bag so nothing else gets black and toss it in the recycling at the end of the season.
During the trip it holds all my small kitchen stuff and the lid is good to put your  warm plate or cup on when cooking so they don't disappear into the snow

Offline Tomek

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2008, 09:21:24 am »
And in the same pot you would boil water for tea/coffe and heat up a soup or such? Will a coleman fuel stove be a smart thing to have in winter or will they not work as well as in the summer?

thanx

Offline scoutergriz

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2008, 05:50:33 pm »
I use instant soups, instant hot cider, etc. That way I can keep water hot and not have to worry about having a bunch of pots to boil dry or knock over. I just scoop out a cupful for my beverage of choice. For coffee I use a perc, remove the guts when it's done and reheat on the stove as needed. the grounds will freeze into a donut shape, a light tap knocks them loose and you can toss them in the fire.
 Coleman stoves work great in the winter, propane /butane freeze up if it gets much below freezing.
If you use a coleman stove ,make sure it has the oiled leather pump washer, not the rubber one- rubber freezes and will not hold pressure
   

Offline Little Sherpa

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 01:10:54 pm »
I use an MSR Dragonfly regularly for winter camping. Works great - I've used it down to -26F without a problem. I have not timed how long it takes to boil water in the winter. Of course, water source (snow/ice/liquid), air temp, pot shape/size, and wind all affect boil time. I generally bring two light pots. One strictly for boiling water and the other if I have to do any cooking.

NOLS suggests that you plan on 1/4 liter of fuel per person per day. That's about what I go through for cooking and boiling water.

Offline stealtrain

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2008, 09:33:54 pm »
for easy cooking -eating-and storage look at the jet boil , great year round stove!!


www.jetboil.com

Offline Oldand Fat

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 08:29:15 am »
Just back from 8 nights at DF08. I used my trusty Coleman single burner, never failed. Had to prime it with a bit of gas in the bowl. I melted snow for water for 2 days before going to the "well". I used about 1/2 a litre of fuel per day. My main meals where boil in the bag and I used that water for tea. I had to push my fluid intake up to about 4 litres a day to get my pee to look like water not maple syrup. Staying hydrated was a problem for me. If fuel had of been in short supply I would have been in trouble. Now for the record: a cold tenter is very well looked after by the hot tenters of DF. 8 days would not be much fun with out them. Yeah!! Dry Boot liners :-*
Think about DF 09. Great time. 
Stay safe
OAF
“ We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe and for that, I am extremely grateful.” Stephen Hawking. 1942 - 2018

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
Mark Twain

Offline Ted

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 09:00:43 am »
Hey OaF,
that's all good info for the cold tenters out there especially your easy cooking method and the 4 liters drinking water needed per day.  I had to switch to vbl socks to save my boot liners.

I was able to drop my dragonfly fuel consumption by about 1/3 using a good chimney/wind screen.   The tinfoil windscreens only protect against wind but a chimney funnels the heat up and close to the pot so they work well.
Mine is made out of aluminum flashing. It's not for the backpacking crowd but I always sled so no big deal.



EDIT: forgot to mention that these chimneys are NOT for one part stoves - the fuel reservoir can't go in a chimney.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 10:56:38 am by ted »
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Offline Oldand Fat

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 01:15:07 pm »
Ted;
        I don't want to steal the tread but this is easiest. I used Ultramax sox,waterproof liners, wool outer sox in my Sorel Boots. Liners still got damp. Snow down the top of boot and ways I just haven't figured out. Liners dried fast but still needed drying.
stay safe
OAF
“ We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe and for that, I am extremely grateful.” Stephen Hawking. 1942 - 2018

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
Mark Twain

Offline lost_patrol

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 10:33:13 pm »
I love my hot tent, socks and boot liners are always dry and warm

can't comment on dragonfly boiling times because I know nothing - my stove burns wood    ;D
"Give me winter, give me dogs.  You can keep the rest."  - Knud Rasmussen
"Ride like you stole something." - Lance Armstrong

yukon

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 02:41:17 pm »
it should not take more than about 5 minutes. I don't pack water but melt it.
Ice is fast as its water content is high, snow takes forever. It also helps to add some water to the bottom of the pot to start things, or the water has a burned out taste.
I like the coleman peak one having used i think most of everything else. it is reliable, and has a tank capacity adequate for most weekends.

How much water you need really is what sets your fuel requirements. I am a big fan of one pot meals, and less boiling time. On the other hand I like to tuck in with a nalgene bottle full of hot water for the bottom of my sleeping bag too. ( I tell  everyone that no, it does not have a coy little sheep cover and no it is not a hot water bottle, but will provide thawed water for coffee while you guys are still trying to find your mitts.

Mostly I carry a one litre fuel bottle, but rarely need to use it in the stove on two or three day outings and use it for my famous Yukon one match fires. ; 8)

Offline Tomd

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 02:26:50 am »
Stoves are one of the most discussed subjects on backpacking websites. I have read literally hundreds of posts on stoves. I have half a dozen myself.  I have an MSR XGK (80's vintage)-the gold standard for mountaineering and cold weather-burns almost any flammable liquid; an Optimus Nova -it simmers, which in my experience is it's only advantage-it also burns most anything. Mine has been trouble, so reliability is questionable; SVEA 123-the classic white gas stove, foolproof, the R model has it's own little windscreen around it. The Sigg Tourist cookkit turns the stove into a cooking system; Coleman Xtreme-uses a hard to find proprietary cartridge, but works well in cold weather (around 0F) no idea how it would be in really cold weather; Primus Micron-a little canister stove I carry for backup and for day hiking. Canisters do not work below about 20F-the gas will not vaporize-the winter mixtures might do a little better; finally an alcohol stove made from a soda can-lightweight backpackers make dozens of homemade variations of these. Not for cold weather-you can see them on YouTube.

Jetboil in really cold weather? I wouldn't bet on it. There are several sites that have tested canisters in cold weather. Unless you have a way to heat the canister above the boiling point of butane, you're dead in the water.  Most canisters are a butane/propane mix of some kind. The Coleman cartridge has a different fuel pickup than the ordinary canisters, so it works in colder weather. Some stoves can use the canisters upside down. I still wouldn't rely on a canister stove in arctic conditions.

Here is a good site for comparisons of stove types and use of stoves in cold weather with a more scientific explanation than I can give.
http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm#ColdWeatherOperation

Even more science-
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Mixtures.htm#Science

BTW, one reason you see mountaineers using canister stove sometimes is because they work at high altitude where the boiling point of everything is lower, so the butane will evaporate once you warm the canister up a bit. This is not the case at sea level.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 11:14:10 pm by Tomd »

Offline Umiujaq

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2009, 09:33:32 am »
Ted,
Your chimney look like a very good system, I think I will build something like that  ;D

I my case, for cooking and boilling water, I use a heavy and thick bottom pot. The kind of expensive professional cookware (like aluminium pot with copper bottom) that I would never buy for my own apartment kitchen. But in the field, this help to melt ice faster because heat is transmitted much more efficiently, and on the long run help save fuel.

Another very important equipment is the pot insulator. I made one with foam pad and aluminium foil. You can put your pot into it and cover it so it wont sit on the snow and get cold before you can eat your meal. Also It keep things warm enough so that the cooking-simmering process will continue for 2-3 min.

Finally I also use a dragonfly, not sure if it is the best stove....but its the only one I ever had !


Offline JAK

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Re: Boiling water...
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2009, 01:17:05 pm »
I bring a Kelly Kettle, which is wicked fast, but in winter a 2 litre pot also. The Kelly Kettle is not good for melting snow, but it makes up for it in speed. The Kelly Kettle makes about 700ml of boiling water, and that will melt alot of snow. If I find myself without water I can use just the pot to melt snow. For carrying water in winter I like a wine skin under the sweater. I don't mind eating snow as I am moving either if I don't want to stop. You can make a snowball in your mouth and let your breath melt it if your worried about conserving energy, or just because its fun. Honey on snow is a fun thing to do also, as long as you keep moving.